Should We Go Home to Rome or the Orthodox Church? A Response to Father Gregory Ned Blevins, Part I
Posted by deangonzales on August 7, 2008
Recently, Gregory Ned Blevins, has noted that in recent years a number of Protestants and Evangelicals have converted over to the Roman or Orthodox communions. He, being a priest in an Independent Orthodox-Catholic Church, sees this as a good thing, and even avers, “If anything will save the United States from following in the footsteps of Western Europe, it will be Roman Catholicism, Orthodoxy, or, most likely, a combination of the influence of both.” I have decided to respond to Father Gregory and invite him to reply. I’ll post his observations of Protestant/Evangelical defections below along with my initial response followed by his initial rejoinder and my surrejoinder. Feel free to chime in (note: the original posts may be found here on “Issues of the Heart,” the blog of a Christian brother Todd Wood).
Observes Father Blevins,
First there are the men, now Orthodox priests, who led about 2,000 people from Evangelicalism to Orthodoxy, beginning c. 1970 and resulting in these folks being chrismated (confirmed) as Orthodox Christians in 1987 (in the Antiochian Archdiocese): Peter Gillquist, Gordon Walker (formerly a Baptist), Jack Sparks, Jon Braun, Weldon Hardenbrook, and others. These men met while associated with Campus Crusade in the late sixties, and come from a broad cross-section of Protestant/Evangelical backgrounds. Fr. Peter has documented their journey in “Becoming Orthodox: A Journey to the Ancient Christian Faith”. He has written “Coming Home” which is a collection of stories about Protestant clergy of different traditions who have become Orthodox, many of them priests. Fr. Peter is fond of saying: “All of Orthodoxy is found in the Bible, but much of it in passages we didn’t underline when we were Evangelicals”.
Associated with this group is Frank Schaeffer, son of the late Francis Schaeffer. Also Fr. James Bernstein, who was raised an Orthodox Jew, converted via Jews-for-Jesus, and then, became an Orthodox Christian. There is author Frederica Mathewes-Greene, whose husband is an Orthodox priest in the Antiochian Archdiocese. They are both former Episcopalians, he a priest. I’m not sure exactly what Fr. Patrick Riordan’s background is, but he is a convert. He is the Pastor of All Saints, Chicago, which sponsors “Ancient Faith radio”, a 24-hour, streaming internet broadcast source. (BTW, there is a flourishing and newly founded Antiochian parish in Wheaton IL, the core of which is composed largely of Wheaton alumni.) Late Church historian and Yale Professor Jaroslaw Pelikan, a lifelong confessional Lutheran (Missouri Synod), converted to Orthodoxy shortly before his death.
There are others: Fr. Stephen Freeman, raised Baptist, then an Episcopal priest, now a priest in the Orthodox Church in America. Since his ordination as an Orthodox priest, his mission/parish in Oak Ridge TN has grown to about 150 members, mostly converts, in a few short years, and has spawned at least two other missions.
A close friend of his, Fr. Alvin Kimel, formerly also an Episcopal priest, is now Roman Catholic. Fr. Dwight Longenecker, a graduate of your alma mater, Bob Jones University, converted to Anglicanism (in England), and was ordained. As Anglicanism began to implode, he converted again and is now an RC priest, serving back in Greenville. The Pastor under whom he serves, Fr. Jay Scott Newman, is also a convert.
Scott Hahn, a former PCA pastor, is also a convert to Roman Catholicism. He is the author of several books and appears frequently on Eternal Word Television Network (EWTN). Professor Thomas Howard, formerly Evangelical, author of “Evangelical is not Enough,” initially became Anglican and then Roman Catholic. Then there is the founder and editor of “First Things” magazine, Fr. Richard John Neuhaus, formerly a Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod pastor. There are many others; these are just some names that come off the top of my head.
If anything will save the United States from following in the footsteps of Western Europe, it will be Roman Catholicism, Orthodoxy, or, most likely, a combination of the influence of both.
Responds Dr. Gonzales,
As most would agree, the use of statistics are a weak argument for the validity of one’s religious worldview since one may selectively marshal just those statistics that seem to support one’s position while ignoring statistics that don’t support one’s position. Moreover, determining the veracity of one’s position on the basis of a religious “experience” is subject to varying interpretations. My conversion from Roman Catholicism to the Protestant evangelical faith was ultimately prompted neither by statistics nor by listening to the testimonies of converts. I prayerfully read the Scriptures for myself and discovered that the Christ and gospel preached by Rome was inconsistent with what I read in the bible. As a result I became and remain a Protestant evangelical. Until someone can convince otherwise FROM God’s word, I shall continue in my commitment to “the faith once delivers to the saints.”
Father Gregory’s rejoinder:
Well, Robert, that’s great, but in so converting, you have, at the very least, ignored a big chunk of Scripture that you now must either explain away or simply ignore.
Dr. Gonzales’s surrejoinder:
Dear FrGregACCA,
I appreciate your response above and the opportunity to interact with you about religious matters of paramount importance. I trust that neither of us will be motivated by the desire merely to win an argument but rather by the desire to proclaim accurately and defend faithfully the truth of the gospel.
At any rate, I am glad that we have leveled the playing field so that sola Scriptura will serve as the ultimate norm for our discussion of religious epistemology and ethics. Of course, religious experience and ecclesiastical tradition have their place. Jesus and the apostles affirmed that the gospel would transform lives (Matthew 7:17-18; John 13:35; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Ephesians 2:10). What is more, Jesus affirmed that he would build his church and be present with her until the end of the age (Matthew 16:16-18; 28:18-20). Nevertheless, the Scriptures themselves speak of spurious conversions (Matthew 7:21-23; 12:20-21; John 8:30-44; Hebrews 6:4-6) and of professing Christians being led astray by false teachers (Galatians 1:6-9; 1 Corinthians 15:12), some of which will arise within the ranks of true churches (Acts 20:28-31; 2 Peter 2:1), and, as a result, deviating from the true faith (2 Corinthians 11:3; Revelation 2:14-16, 20-21). So determining the validity of personal testimonies of conversion experiences requires us to assess such experiences in the light of God’s word. You can point to many examples of Protestant evangelicals converting to Roman or Orthodox churches. We, in turn, could provide a myriad of examples of Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox adherents who, like myself, would claim that they never heard the Scriptures faithfully taught and the gospel clearly preached until they left those ecclesiastical institutions and joined Protestant evangelical churches. Most likely, then, we will not get very far using the religious experiences of others as an argument for the veracity of our position.
Nor would we make much progress by grounding our arguments ultimately in non-inspired, post-apostolic ecclesiastical tradition. Not all human tradition is bad. Indeed, when human tradition conforms to divine revelation it is good and may serve as norma normata, viz., an extension of human authority that is normative insofar as it reflects the teaching of Scripture, which is norma normans, viz., the final or ultimate standard by which human tradition and authority are judged. Since the apostles were inspired by God’s Spirit (John 15:26-27; 16:13; Ephesians 2:20; 2 Peter 3:2; 1 John 4:1-6), I would place their teaching or tradition in the category of norma normans (1 Corinthians 11:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:15). On the other hand, I would place the authority of ecclesiastical tradition in the category of norma normata. Hence, any truth claims advanced by whatever ecclesiastical tradition must be assessed and validated by Scripture itself, which is self-attesting (Exodus 32:15-16; Deuteronomy 4:1-2; 2 Samuel 23:1-2; Matthew 22:31; Acts 1:16; Romans 1:1-2; 3:1; 2 Timothy 3:15-17; 2 Peter 1:21) and self-authenticating (Matthew 10:5-15; 11:20-24 [that the degree of moral responsibility is predicated upon the degree of exposure to special revelation presupposes the self-authenticating quality of God's word]; Luke 16:19-21 [that Scripture alone is sufficient for conversion even apart from supernatural miracles assumes a self-authenticating quality of Scripture]; Romans 1:18-20, 32; 2:14-15 [argument from lesser to greater--if general revelation is self-authenticating, how much more special revelation, which is characterized by a greater degree of clarity and specificity]). Furthermore, since Jesus and Scripture itself indicate that historical (even ethnic) continuity within an ecclesiastical institution does not insure or validate its authenticity (Matthew 3:9-10; 15:1-9; John 8:39; Romans 11:17-20; Colossians 2:8), then we cannot use historical succession in-and-of-itself as an argument for the genuineness of any local church or communion of churches. If good churches in the apostolic age had the potential of going bad, having their candlestick removed, and becoming “synagogues of Satan” (Revelation 2 & 3), then we must allow for the possibility that the Church of Rome itself has departed from and invalidated the true gospel by its own human traditions.
So then, the bottom line is, “What does God’s Word say?” You allege that by converting to my evangelical beliefs and leaving the Church of Rome I am guilty of either ignoring or explaining away a “big chunk of Scripture.” I am eager to hear what particular beliefs I presently hold are out of line with a large portion of Scripture. To help you in your assessment, you may access the confession of faith to which I hold here: http://www.1689.com/Confession/confession.html
May the Lord grant us both teachable spirits!
Respectfully yours,
Bob Gonzales
6 Responses to “Should We Go Home to Rome or the Orthodox Church? A Response to Father Gregory Ned Blevins, Part I”
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August 7th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
Ah, you’ve moved the discussion. That’s fine. I thought about doing the same thing. For the moment, a couple of clarifications (there will be a detailed response later):
A)I am not Roman Catholic. I am a priest of an Independent Orthodox-Catholic Church which embraces the non-chalcedonian Syriac Orthodox tradition. (As an aside, if you had converted to either form of Orthodoxy, we would not be having this conversation.)
B)Not being RC, I am neither a Dominican nor a Franciscan. Therefore, I am not a “Friar”. I am a “Father” (but since you probably have problems with that, feel free to call me “Greg”).
August 8th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
Dear Greg,
Thank you for the clarifications,and please forgive my mistakes. I have corrected them as you can tell. I moved the discussion to this site because (1) I wasn’t sure it was directly relevant to Todd Wood’s question regarding the LDS church, and (2) I didn’t want to clutter his post with lengthy discussions that may be tangential to his topic. I have read your response on Todd Woods blog and look forward to offering a response. That response will probably have to wait, however, till I return from vacation with my family. Once again, I appreciate the opportunity to interact about such important matters.
Your servant,
Bob Gonzales
August 8th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
That’s fine, Bob. I’m going to be out of town for a week or two myself. Taking daughter to college in Chicago. Please keep us in your prayers and you and your family will be in ours.
August 13th, 2008 at 1:52 am
For a list of Reformed folks who have become Catholic, check this out:
http://cantuar.blogspot.com/2008/08/reformed-converts-to-catholicism.html
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