Comments on: Young, Restless, Reformed: “Hip, Hip, Hurrah!” or “Bah Humbug!”? http://blog.rbseminary.org/2008/12/young-restless-reformed-%e2%80%9chip-hip-hurrah%e2%80%9d-or-%e2%80%9cbah-humbug%e2%80%9d/ The official blog of Reformed Baptist Seminary Thu, 11 Mar 2010 23:33:29 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Young, Restless, Reformed: “Hip, Hip, Hurrah!” or “Bah Humbug!”? « RBS Tabletalk http://blog.rbseminary.org/2008/12/young-restless-reformed-%e2%80%9chip-hip-hurrah%e2%80%9d-or-%e2%80%9cbah-humbug%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-325 Young, Restless, Reformed: “Hip, Hip, Hurrah!” or “Bah Humbug!”? « RBS Tabletalk Thu, 19 Feb 2009 20:38:19 +0000 http://blog.rbseminary.org/?p=391#comment-325 [...] Site has moved. Click here. [...] [...] Site has moved. Click here. [...]

]]> By: deangonzales http://blog.rbseminary.org/2008/12/young-restless-reformed-%e2%80%9chip-hip-hurrah%e2%80%9d-or-%e2%80%9cbah-humbug%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-247 deangonzales Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:39:19 +0000 http://blog.rbseminary.org/?p=391#comment-247 David, I agree that one may have genuine concerns about some of the potentially unhealthy or even harmful elements of a ministry like Driscoll's and even caution his people without qualifying as a "Mr. Scrooge" or as "hyper-critical." I think the balance is trying to give our people a complete picture of a brother we criticize. For instance, I am very critical of J. I. Packer's ecumenical stance towards Roman Catholics. But I also appreciate his writings, especially on the Puritans. So in criticizing his imbalanced catholicity, I would also assure my people that most of his writings are sound. Driscoll is young and probably has a lot more maturing to do (as we did at that age). I'm thankful for the positive things God is going in his life and ministry. I hope he continues to grow and mature. Thankfully, he's opened himself up to the mentorship of men like D. A. Carson and John Piper. Choosing such men as his primary mentors is itself a sign of wisdom on his part. In the end, though, we shouldn't set him or any many on a pedestal. Instead, we should speak, like Paul, of what Christ is doing through earthen vessels--some of them with significant weaknesses and remaining flaws. David,

I agree that one may have genuine concerns about some of the potentially unhealthy or even harmful elements of a ministry like Driscoll’s and even caution his people without qualifying as a “Mr. Scrooge” or as “hyper-critical.” I think the balance is trying to give our people a complete picture of a brother we criticize. For instance, I am very critical of J. I. Packer’s ecumenical stance towards Roman Catholics. But I also appreciate his writings, especially on the Puritans. So in criticizing his imbalanced catholicity, I would also assure my people that most of his writings are sound. Driscoll is young and probably has a lot more maturing to do (as we did at that age). I’m thankful for the positive things God is going in his life and ministry. I hope he continues to grow and mature. Thankfully, he’s opened himself up to the mentorship of men like D. A. Carson and John Piper. Choosing such men as his primary mentors is itself a sign of wisdom on his part. In the end, though, we shouldn’t set him or any many on a pedestal. Instead, we should speak, like Paul, of what Christ is doing through earthen vessels–some of them with significant weaknesses and remaining flaws.

]]> By: David Charles http://blog.rbseminary.org/2008/12/young-restless-reformed-%e2%80%9chip-hip-hurrah%e2%80%9d-or-%e2%80%9cbah-humbug%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-245 David Charles Tue, 27 Jan 2009 03:23:36 +0000 http://blog.rbseminary.org/?p=391#comment-245 Thanks Chad. I trust all is well there at PRBC. The only point that I am anxious to make is that one can be careful without being a scrooge. Moreover, to be critical is not the same as being “hyper” critical. dc Thanks Chad. I trust all is well there at PRBC. The only point that I am anxious to make is that one can be careful without being a scrooge. Moreover, to be critical is not the same as being “hyper” critical.

dc

]]> By: Chad C. http://blog.rbseminary.org/2008/12/young-restless-reformed-%e2%80%9chip-hip-hurrah%e2%80%9d-or-%e2%80%9cbah-humbug%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-244 Chad C. Mon, 26 Jan 2009 23:29:58 +0000 http://blog.rbseminary.org/?p=391#comment-244 As noted by a few others, I'm also a product of the YR&R movement and am deeply indebted to God because of those men who are reaching out to younger people with the Gospel of God's sovereign and unconditional grace. While in Bible College, the Lord used the on-campus ministries of Piper, Carson, and Mohler to direct my heart to assent to and celebrate many "reformed" doctrines and to really appreciate the writings of our Puritan forefathers. As a result, I attended Bethlehem Baptist in Minneapolis (Piper) and continued to become more reformed in all areas of doctrine. Eventually, this led to my discovery and embracing of the 1689 LBC. I later became a member of a full-fledged RBC in Minneapolis and the Lord has continued to kindly assist me in growing in His grace and knowledge ever since (2 Pet. 3:18. I mention all of this because I hope that my fellow reformed brethren will not be hyper-critical of YR&R. God is doing an amazing thing among many who are younger and less-mature in the faith than we are. Their zeal is real, and their newfound and restless love of truth is something we should all rejoice in! If it wasn't for ministries outside our strictly reformed circles, I might never have come to the place and position that I am now. So brothers, let us show our reformed convictions by trusting more in a sovereign and supreme God who's ways are much higher than ours and who uses many means to save sinners, to reform minds, and to bring glory to His Name. As noted by a few others, I’m also a product of the YR&R movement and am deeply indebted to God because of those men who are reaching out to younger people with the Gospel of God’s sovereign and unconditional grace. While in Bible College, the Lord used the on-campus ministries of Piper, Carson, and Mohler to direct my heart to assent to and celebrate many “reformed” doctrines and to really appreciate the writings of our Puritan forefathers. As a result, I attended Bethlehem Baptist in Minneapolis (Piper) and continued to become more reformed in all areas of doctrine. Eventually, this led to my discovery and embracing of the 1689 LBC. I later became a member of a full-fledged RBC in Minneapolis and the Lord has continued to kindly assist me in growing in His grace and knowledge ever since (2 Pet. 3:18. I mention all of this because I hope that my fellow reformed brethren will not be hyper-critical of YR&R. God is doing an amazing thing among many who are younger and less-mature in the faith than we are. Their zeal is real, and their newfound and restless love of truth is something we should all rejoice in! If it wasn’t for ministries outside our strictly reformed circles, I might never have come to the place and position that I am now. So brothers, let us show our reformed convictions by trusting more in a sovereign and supreme God who’s ways are much higher than ours and who uses many means to save sinners, to reform minds, and to bring glory to His Name.

]]> By: David Charles http://blog.rbseminary.org/2008/12/young-restless-reformed-%e2%80%9chip-hip-hurrah%e2%80%9d-or-%e2%80%9cbah-humbug%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-243 David Charles Mon, 26 Jan 2009 20:00:33 +0000 http://blog.rbseminary.org/?p=391#comment-243 So this is our only two options? If I am a bit more cautious about what some of these men teach, I am a scrooge? It seems to me that the issues are a “tad more complex than” this BLOG makes them out to be. BTW I have a number of young Reformed Baptist men in my church. They are all real men with real Reformed Baptist convictions. And I know that they desire to become “Mature, Settled and Confessionally Reformed” So this is our only two options? If I am a bit more cautious about what some of these men teach, I am a scrooge? It seems to me that the issues are a “tad more complex than” this BLOG makes them out to be.

BTW I have a number of young Reformed Baptist men in my church. They are all real men with real Reformed Baptist convictions. And I know that they desire to become “Mature, Settled and Confessionally Reformed”

]]> By: Nick http://blog.rbseminary.org/2008/12/young-restless-reformed-%e2%80%9chip-hip-hurrah%e2%80%9d-or-%e2%80%9cbah-humbug%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-178 Nick Sun, 18 Jan 2009 03:38:55 +0000 http://blog.rbseminary.org/?p=391#comment-178 I found this book to be personally thrilling, because in many ways it is my story. I came to the doctrines of grace at age nineteen, and within a few years was a self identifying, 1689 subscribing Reformed Baptist. As I have developed my Calvinistic convictions, I have taken a more historical route, and am now a member of a 1689 confessing Church. Many of my peers came to the same Calvinistic conclusions as I did, but have steered clear of the traditional Reformed (even with qualifications) Churches. I have found that the usual reason for this has less to do with doctrine and more to do with worship style, evangelistic attitudes, etc. I continue to have good relationships with these brothers, and in some ways see things that they are getting right that the more traditionally Reformed Churches are getting wrong. My attitude toward them is similar to my attitude toward my Presbyterian brothers: we aren't going to be joining the same Churches anytime soon, but wherever God is lifted high, man is brought low, and the historic gospel of Jesus Christ is preached all Christians should offer an unqualified hip hip hooray. Reformed Baptist of all people, whose libraries are full of books by men with views on Baptism and Church polity that are at odds with their own, should be willing to show grace over secondary issues. I found this book to be personally thrilling, because in many ways it is my story. I came to the doctrines of grace at age nineteen, and within a few years was a self identifying, 1689 subscribing Reformed Baptist. As I have developed my Calvinistic convictions, I have taken a more historical route, and am now a member of a 1689 confessing Church.

Many of my peers came to the same Calvinistic conclusions as I did, but have steered clear of the traditional Reformed (even with qualifications) Churches. I have found that the usual reason for this has less to do with doctrine and more to do with worship style, evangelistic attitudes, etc.

I continue to have good relationships with these brothers, and in some ways see things that they are getting right that the more traditionally Reformed Churches are getting wrong. My attitude toward them is similar to my attitude toward my Presbyterian brothers: we aren’t going to be joining the same Churches anytime soon, but wherever God is lifted high, man is brought low, and the historic gospel of Jesus Christ is preached all Christians should offer an unqualified hip hip hooray.

Reformed Baptist of all people, whose libraries are full of books by men with views on Baptism and Church polity that are at odds with their own, should be willing to show grace over secondary issues.

]]> By: Robert Briggs http://blog.rbseminary.org/2008/12/young-restless-reformed-%e2%80%9chip-hip-hurrah%e2%80%9d-or-%e2%80%9cbah-humbug%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-177 Robert Briggs Wed, 14 Jan 2009 20:13:25 +0000 http://blog.rbseminary.org/?p=391#comment-177 Loving as I do my Confession of Faith LCF 1689, and rejoicing in the benefits it has brought be over the years in clarifying my understanding of many issues it is still a subordinate standard and in some areas could do with revising. The old issues of strict and substantial subscriptionism never go away and so often can cause us to be so narrow in our spirits that it is unhealthy for our souls and our ministries. I rejoice as a pastor to have many of these young,restless and reformed types coming to our church. They are hungry, they are teachable and they are showing evidences of grace that thrill my heart. I am determined to encourage them and see them grow in greater maturity not by presenting strict subscriptionism to our Confession but by strict commitment to the word of God and a spirit of submission to our Lord. I want them to think for themselves and wrestle with the word as I have done over the years so that they come to clear and settled convictions, understanding we are committed to sola scriptura and keep our confession in its rightful place, as subordinate. I really do not care to worry about whether they are 'Reformed' according to the definitions of men, whether they are 'Calvinists' according to the definitions of men, or whether they are Reformed Baptists or Calvinistic Baptists according to the defintions of men, they will soon find out for themselves that these arguments will never be settled and are often a waste of time. Yes it is good to know about them and understand them but to argue about them and have people demands you submit to their opinion should cause grief and sorrow. I know enough Paedo-Baptist brothers who do not even agree about what baptism is under their covenantal system.I also know enough RB's to know they are so narrow that anything outside their little circle is suspicious. May the Lord have mercy on us if we cannot rejoice and encourage the young people of our generation to love the truth and grow in the truth and embody the truth in God-honoring lives..... God's Spirit is at work in far wider circles than we move in.... Hallelujah !! Sincerely Robert Briggs Pastor, Immanuel Baptist Church, Sacramento, CA Loving as I do my Confession of Faith LCF 1689, and rejoicing in the benefits it has brought be over the years in clarifying my understanding of many issues it is still a subordinate standard and in some areas could do with revising.

The old issues of strict and substantial subscriptionism never go away and so often can cause us to be so narrow in our spirits that it is unhealthy for our souls and our ministries.

I rejoice as a pastor to have many of these young,restless and reformed types coming to our church. They are hungry, they are teachable and they are showing evidences of grace that thrill my heart. I am determined to encourage them and see them grow in greater maturity not by presenting strict subscriptionism to our Confession but by strict commitment to the word of God and a spirit of submission to our Lord. I want them to think for themselves and wrestle with the word as I have done over the years so that they come to clear and settled convictions, understanding we are committed to sola scriptura and keep our confession in its rightful place, as subordinate.

I really do not care to worry about whether they are ‘Reformed’ according to the definitions of men, whether they are ‘Calvinists’ according to the definitions of men, or whether they are Reformed Baptists or Calvinistic Baptists according to the defintions of men, they will soon find out for themselves that these arguments will never be settled and are often a waste of time.

Yes it is good to know about them and understand them but to argue about them and have people demands you submit to their opinion should cause grief and sorrow.

I know enough Paedo-Baptist brothers who do not even agree about what baptism is under their covenantal system.I also know enough RB’s to know they are so narrow that anything outside their little circle is suspicious.

May the Lord have mercy on us if we cannot rejoice and encourage the young people of our generation to love the truth and grow in the truth and embody the truth in God-honoring lives…..

God’s Spirit is at work in far wider circles than we move in…. Hallelujah !!

Sincerely

Robert Briggs
Pastor, Immanuel Baptist Church,
Sacramento, CA

]]> By: iRe4m http://blog.rbseminary.org/2008/12/young-restless-reformed-%e2%80%9chip-hip-hurrah%e2%80%9d-or-%e2%80%9cbah-humbug%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-176 iRe4m Wed, 07 Jan 2009 20:38:17 +0000 http://blog.rbseminary.org/?p=391#comment-176 @ Josh: exactly my thoughts! @ Josh: exactly my thoughts!

]]> By: Matt Troupe http://blog.rbseminary.org/2008/12/young-restless-reformed-%e2%80%9chip-hip-hurrah%e2%80%9d-or-%e2%80%9cbah-humbug%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-175 Matt Troupe Wed, 07 Jan 2009 03:49:38 +0000 http://blog.rbseminary.org/?p=391#comment-175 Thanks for the thoughtful review. It seems that we need to be careful not to make ourselves the standard of having arrived. We are all continually on the way toward constant reformation and we can rejoice, that like us many are taking more and more steps toward the faith we love and confess. I am happy for the resurgence in this interest. I am much more aware of my own failings and the failures of the RB movement so that I find myself too occupied removing the log from my own eye to spend too much time worrying about these folks. Most of us are the exception in the stream of orthodoxy and I rejoice in the reformed doctrine that justification is by faith, not confessional orthodoxy. Thanks for the thoughtful review. It seems that we need to be careful not to make ourselves the standard of having arrived. We are all continually on the way toward constant reformation and we can rejoice, that like us many are taking more and more steps toward the faith we love and confess. I am happy for the resurgence in this interest. I am much more aware of my own failings and the failures of the RB movement so that I find myself too occupied removing the log from my own eye to spend too much time worrying about these folks. Most of us are the exception in the stream of orthodoxy and I rejoice in the reformed doctrine that justification is by faith, not confessional orthodoxy.

]]> By: Josh http://blog.rbseminary.org/2008/12/young-restless-reformed-%e2%80%9chip-hip-hurrah%e2%80%9d-or-%e2%80%9cbah-humbug%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-174 Josh Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:02:43 +0000 http://blog.rbseminary.org/?p=391#comment-174 Thanks again Dr. Gonzales, You have proven to me again that their is hope for the future of the RBC. I always enjoy your insights into these things and find myself a kindred spirit in your appreciation for men like Carson, Piper, Mahaney, et al. whose names I can often not say aloud in our church without receiving scowls...forget ever mentioning the name Driscoll ;-) Praise God for the resurgence of Reformed theology among young people!! Thanks again Dr. Gonzales,

You have proven to me again that their is hope for the future of the RBC. I always enjoy your insights into these things and find myself a kindred spirit in your appreciation for men like Carson, Piper, Mahaney, et al. whose names I can often not say aloud in our church without receiving scowls…forget ever mentioning the name Driscoll ;-)

Praise God for the resurgence of Reformed theology among young people!!

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