Comments on: The Cessation of Special Revelation: A Humble Argument for the Cessation of NT Prophecy and Tongues, Part 4 http://blog.rbseminary.org/2009/03/the-cessation-of-special-revelation-a-humble-argument-for-the-cessation-of-nt-prophecy-and-tongues-part-4/ The official blog of Reformed Baptist Seminary Mon, 06 Sep 2010 23:45:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: William http://blog.rbseminary.org/2009/03/the-cessation-of-special-revelation-a-humble-argument-for-the-cessation-of-nt-prophecy-and-tongues-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-8151 William Mon, 22 Mar 2010 23:03:46 +0000 http://blog.rbseminary.org/?p=799#comment-8151 Would love a pdf copy please. Would love a pdf copy please.

]]> By: Keith Throop http://blog.rbseminary.org/2009/03/the-cessation-of-special-revelation-a-humble-argument-for-the-cessation-of-nt-prophecy-and-tongues-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-2447 Keith Throop Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:40:35 +0000 http://blog.rbseminary.org/?p=799#comment-2447 Bob, I have just finally gotten back to reading this series of articles, and I hope to really give them some close attention this week and next as I move through the rest of them. I have at times described myself as a Continuationist, along the same lines as Grudem. But actually I would probably better fit the "open, but cautious" description. I have thought through and studied these matters much over the years, but I sense the need to come at it all afresh now. And I think this is coming from the Lord. I look forward to reading through the rest of your posts and hope to be able make any observations or ask any questions I might have along the way. In my view, Grudem and Carson have been the two most able defenders of what I would consider a more careful Cessationist position, and I will be especially interested in your responses to them. Thanks for being willing to take on this issue, brother. And thanks for challenging me -- even if it you didn't know God was using you to do it! Keith Bob,

I have just finally gotten back to reading this series of articles, and I hope to really give them some close attention this week and next as I move through the rest of them.

I have at times described myself as a Continuationist, along the same lines as Grudem. But actually I would probably better fit the “open, but cautious” description. I have thought through and studied these matters much over the years, but I sense the need to come at it all afresh now. And I think this is coming from the Lord.

I look forward to reading through the rest of your posts and hope to be able make any observations or ask any questions I might have along the way. In my view, Grudem and Carson have been the two most able defenders of what I would consider a more careful Cessationist position, and I will be especially interested in your responses to them.

Thanks for being willing to take on this issue, brother. And thanks for challenging me — even if it you didn’t know God was using you to do it!

Keith

]]> By: deangonzales http://blog.rbseminary.org/2009/03/the-cessation-of-special-revelation-a-humble-argument-for-the-cessation-of-nt-prophecy-and-tongues-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-1296 deangonzales Mon, 13 Apr 2009 04:57:14 +0000 http://blog.rbseminary.org/?p=799#comment-1296 John, I might word it this way: the end and goal of special revelation is that the sinners might be saved and that the church might be brought to Christ-like maturity (Eph. 4:11-16). Before the completion of the canon, Paul's oral teaching as well as his written epistles served this function. Once the NT canon was completed and accessible to the universal church, however, the need for ongoing oral prophecy (or other non-Scripture forms of special revelation. The completed canon of the Old and New Testaments have become the all-sufficient norm by which the church and the Christian may be equipped unto every good work. Bob Gonzales John,

I might word it this way: the end and goal of special revelation is that the sinners might be saved and that the church might be brought to Christ-like maturity (Eph. 4:11-16). Before the completion of the canon, Paul’s oral teaching as well as his written epistles served this function. Once the NT canon was completed and accessible to the universal church, however, the need for ongoing oral prophecy (or other non-Scripture forms of special revelation. The completed canon of the Old and New Testaments have become the all-sufficient norm by which the church and the Christian may be equipped unto every good work.

Bob Gonzales

]]> By: John http://blog.rbseminary.org/2009/03/the-cessation-of-special-revelation-a-humble-argument-for-the-cessation-of-nt-prophecy-and-tongues-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-728 John Wed, 25 Mar 2009 14:18:28 +0000 http://blog.rbseminary.org/?p=799#comment-728 You wrote, "oral prophecy and tongues were means to an end and since that end has been accomplished". The "end" has been accomplished? Really? So, the church is perfect? According to the Apostle Paul the "end" of tongues and prophesy is "that the church may be built up" (1 Cor. 14:5)-- not special revelation. You wrote, “oral prophecy and tongues were means to an end and since that end has been accomplished”. The “end” has been accomplished? Really? So, the church is perfect?
According to the Apostle Paul the “end” of tongues and prophesy is “that the church may be built up” (1 Cor. 14:5)– not special revelation.

]]> By: Paul Hebner http://blog.rbseminary.org/2009/03/the-cessation-of-special-revelation-a-humble-argument-for-the-cessation-of-nt-prophecy-and-tongues-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-630 Paul Hebner Fri, 20 Mar 2009 11:10:44 +0000 http://blog.rbseminary.org/?p=799#comment-630 Thank you for this indepth examination of this issue. I particular liked your treatment of the NT Canon in Part 3. I am familiar with the endorsement of Paul's writings by Peter from scripture and the statement that the apostolic (eyewitnesses) writings were accepted by the church as inspired because they were eyewitnesses of Jesus or the apostles but this is the first time I have read where someone delved into the scriptural grounds for believing that the apostolic and non-apostolic writings are inspired. Like you said, the reliance seems to be on church tradition. I would like a pdf copy of your diagram please pdhebner@hebnerfam.us Thank you for this indepth examination of this issue. I particular liked your treatment of the NT Canon in Part 3. I am familiar with the endorsement of Paul’s writings by Peter from scripture and the statement that the apostolic (eyewitnesses) writings were accepted by the church as inspired because they were eyewitnesses of Jesus or the apostles but this is the first time I have read where someone delved into the scriptural grounds for believing that the apostolic and non-apostolic writings are inspired. Like you said, the reliance seems to be on church tradition. I would like a pdf copy of your diagram please pdhebner@hebnerfam.us

]]> By: The Cessation of Special Revelation: A Humble Argument for the Cessation of NT Prophecy and Tongues, Part 8 | RBS Tabletalk http://blog.rbseminary.org/2009/03/the-cessation-of-special-revelation-a-humble-argument-for-the-cessation-of-nt-prophecy-and-tongues-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-595 The Cessation of Special Revelation: A Humble Argument for the Cessation of NT Prophecy and Tongues, Part 8 | RBS Tabletalk Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:47:52 +0000 http://blog.rbseminary.org/?p=799#comment-595 [...] authoritative special revelation has been completed and has, therefore, ceased (Part 2, Part 3, Part 4). This point is affirmed by most continuationists like Grudem (Part 5).Nevertheless, Wayne Grudem [...] [...] authoritative special revelation has been completed and has, therefore, ceased (Part 2, Part 3, Part 4). This point is affirmed by most continuationists like Grudem (Part 5).Nevertheless, Wayne Grudem [...]

]]> By: deangonzales http://blog.rbseminary.org/2009/03/the-cessation-of-special-revelation-a-humble-argument-for-the-cessation-of-nt-prophecy-and-tongues-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-516 deangonzales Wed, 11 Mar 2009 21:21:12 +0000 http://blog.rbseminary.org/?p=799#comment-516 Thanks, Tim. The burden of my minor premise will be to demonstrate that the NT gifts of oral prophecy and tongues belong to the same category of revelation of which the present canon of Scripture is the end product of a modal and historical goal. Since oral prophecy and tongues were means to an end and since that end has been accomplished, I see no warrant for their continuance. Moreover, if the prophecy and tongues of the NT is the same kind of revelation as OT prophecy, it would carry an equal quality of inspiration and authority as the Bible. This, of course, is not the position of men like Grudem, Piper, and C. J. Mahaney (men whom I, BTW, highly respect despite my not being won over by their arguments). Hopefully, some of my subsequent installments may address your distinction between non-canonical and canonical prophecy. If I don't persuade you, that's okay. I highly respect you and hope we'll remain good friends. Your brother in Christ, Bob Gonzales Thanks, Tim. The burden of my minor premise will be to demonstrate that the NT gifts of oral prophecy and tongues belong to the same category of revelation of which the present canon of Scripture is the end product of a modal and historical goal. Since oral prophecy and tongues were means to an end and since that end has been accomplished, I see no warrant for their continuance. Moreover, if the prophecy and tongues of the NT is the same kind of revelation as OT prophecy, it would carry an equal quality of inspiration and authority as the Bible. This, of course, is not the position of men like Grudem, Piper, and C. J. Mahaney (men whom I, BTW, highly respect despite my not being won over by their arguments). Hopefully, some of my subsequent installments may address your distinction between non-canonical and canonical prophecy. If I don’t persuade you, that’s okay. I highly respect you and hope we’ll remain good friends.

Your brother in Christ,
Bob Gonzales

]]> By: Tim Cunningham http://blog.rbseminary.org/2009/03/the-cessation-of-special-revelation-a-humble-argument-for-the-cessation-of-nt-prophecy-and-tongues-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-514 Tim Cunningham Wed, 11 Mar 2009 21:07:25 +0000 http://blog.rbseminary.org/?p=799#comment-514 Hello Dr. Gonzales Your syllogism establishes that canonical special revelation (the foundation of the church) has ceased. But does that mean non-canonical special revelation also ceases? I think you need to show grounds for the belief that God's mind the expiry of the one necessarily implies the expiry of the other. As you may know, I have argued at some length on the Puritan board that there are insufficient grounds to lump non-canonical special revelation in with canonical revelation. Tim Cunningham Hello Dr. Gonzales

Your syllogism establishes that canonical special revelation (the foundation of the church) has ceased. But does that mean non-canonical special revelation also ceases? I think you need to show grounds for the belief that God’s mind the expiry of the one necessarily implies the expiry of the other. As you may know, I have argued at some length on the Puritan board that there are insufficient grounds to lump non-canonical special revelation in with canonical revelation.

Tim Cunningham

]]> By: The Cesssation of Special Revelation: A Humble Argument for the Cessation of NT Prophecy and Tongues, Part 5 | RBS Tabletalk http://blog.rbseminary.org/2009/03/the-cessation-of-special-revelation-a-humble-argument-for-the-cessation-of-nt-prophecy-and-tongues-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-502 The Cesssation of Special Revelation: A Humble Argument for the Cessation of NT Prophecy and Tongues, Part 5 | RBS Tabletalk Tue, 10 Mar 2009 02:35:37 +0000 http://blog.rbseminary.org/?p=799#comment-502 [...] with the cessationists though we acknowledge good men in the other camps. In Part 2, Part 3, and Part 4, we sought to establish our major premise, namely, that all pre-parousia divinely authoritative [...] [...] with the cessationists though we acknowledge good men in the other camps. In Part 2, Part 3, and Part 4, we sought to establish our major premise, namely, that all pre-parousia divinely authoritative [...]

]]> By: Becky Gonzales http://blog.rbseminary.org/2009/03/the-cessation-of-special-revelation-a-humble-argument-for-the-cessation-of-nt-prophecy-and-tongues-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-498 Becky Gonzales Tue, 10 Mar 2009 02:10:19 +0000 http://blog.rbseminary.org/?p=799#comment-498 OOPS!!! Very funny. Next time I better proofread my comment before I push the submit comment button. This is what I get for always noticing other people's grammatical and spelling mistakes! :) :) (You can laugh at me, as long as you are very loving.) OOPS!!! Very funny. Next time I better proofread my comment before I push the submit comment button. This is what I get for always noticing other people’s grammatical and spelling mistakes! :) :)
(You can laugh at me, as long as you are very loving.)

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