<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: FAQ on the Holy Spirit</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.rbseminary.org/2010/02/faq-on-the-holy-spirit/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.rbseminary.org/2010/02/faq-on-the-holy-spirit/</link>
	<description>The official blog of Reformed Baptist Seminary</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 23:45:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Reuther</title>
		<link>http://blog.rbseminary.org/2010/02/faq-on-the-holy-spirit/comment-page-1/#comment-7161</link>
		<dc:creator>John Reuther</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:59:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.rbseminary.org/?p=1990#comment-7161</guid>
		<description>These are sobering thoughts you are presenting brother! Power, privilege, and accountability. Thank you for contributing to the discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These are sobering thoughts you are presenting brother! Power, privilege, and accountability. Thank you for contributing to the discussion.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: hijump</title>
		<link>http://blog.rbseminary.org/2010/02/faq-on-the-holy-spirit/comment-page-1/#comment-7046</link>
		<dc:creator>hijump</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 02:43:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.rbseminary.org/?p=1990#comment-7046</guid>
		<description>Hi there, it seems to me that the argument of ultimate power ushers us in to a higher level of accountability due to the enormous grace endowed to us by the Holy Spirit as opposed to the OT believers. Ours is more complete in terms of a completed gospel covenanted by the blood of Jesus. Much is really given to us and therefore as our Lord Jesus said much is also required in terms of God&#039;s expectations as to how much of the fruit of the spirit is produced in us even as how much of the manifold gifts of the Holy Spirit are manifesting through us. I believe the production of the spirit is the qualitative foundation of the Ultimate Power section of this article. The higher the qualitative foundation the stronger will the spiritual gift expression to a point of being supernaturally miraculous. We might as well take note of the level of accountability that God is aiming at us in our time. It seems like God is telling us what&#039;s taking you so long so I could do another &quot;parting of the Red Sea&quot; in your time? Ultimate power is real when it is unleashed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi there, it seems to me that the argument of ultimate power ushers us in to a higher level of accountability due to the enormous grace endowed to us by the Holy Spirit as opposed to the OT believers. Ours is more complete in terms of a completed gospel covenanted by the blood of Jesus. Much is really given to us and therefore as our Lord Jesus said much is also required in terms of God&#8217;s expectations as to how much of the fruit of the spirit is produced in us even as how much of the manifold gifts of the Holy Spirit are manifesting through us. I believe the production of the spirit is the qualitative foundation of the Ultimate Power section of this article. The higher the qualitative foundation the stronger will the spiritual gift expression to a point of being supernaturally miraculous. We might as well take note of the level of accountability that God is aiming at us in our time. It seems like God is telling us what&#8217;s taking you so long so I could do another &#8220;parting of the Red Sea&#8221; in your time? Ultimate power is real when it is unleashed.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Reuther</title>
		<link>http://blog.rbseminary.org/2010/02/faq-on-the-holy-spirit/comment-page-1/#comment-7003</link>
		<dc:creator>John Reuther</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 22:03:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.rbseminary.org/?p=1990#comment-7003</guid>
		<description>Thanks Dr. G. That&#039;s helpful - And I would add Oskar, that based on John 7:37-39, the Spirit of the risen and exalted Christ had not yet been given in the OT, because Christ had not yet been raised (John 7:37-39 is really the crux of the matter), and if it is so that the Spirit of Christ, poured forth after the exaltation of Christ, is in us, then the fruit of the Spirit will be fruit growing distinctively in union with Christ. That is a far &quot;better&quot; (using the theology of Hebrews) reality for us, and surely the issue of fruit is no little part of that. JR</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Dr. G. That&#8217;s helpful &#8211; And I would add Oskar, that based on John 7:37-39, the Spirit of the risen and exalted Christ had not yet been given in the OT, because Christ had not yet been raised (John 7:37-39 is really the crux of the matter), and if it is so that the Spirit of Christ, poured forth after the exaltation of Christ, is in us, then the fruit of the Spirit will be fruit growing distinctively in union with Christ. That is a far &#8220;better&#8221; (using the theology of Hebrews) reality for us, and surely the issue of fruit is no little part of that. JR</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bob Gonzales</title>
		<link>http://blog.rbseminary.org/2010/02/faq-on-the-holy-spirit/comment-page-1/#comment-7000</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Gonzales</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 20:17:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.rbseminary.org/?p=1990#comment-7000</guid>
		<description>Oskar,

It appears to me that you&#039;re struggling with accepting at a conceptual level the idea that the NT believer is likely to be holier or more sanctified than an OT believer by virtue of the new phase of the Spirit&#039;s ministry under the New Covenant. I don&#039;t think you&#039;re having difficulty seeing this at a corporate level. Certainly, the Age of the Spirit has resulted in a New Covenant Community that produces the kind of fruit that the Old Covenant Community failed to produce. But when we think of the piety of men like Abraham and Moses and David, it&#039;s difficult for us to conceive of the sanctification of NT believers rising much higher with some exceptions, of course, like, say, Peter, Stephen, and Paul. 

On the other hand, if we tie the Spirit&#039;s sanctifying work to special revelation (John 17:17) and if we grant that under the NT era we have much more special revelation than those under the OT era, then it&#039;s possible, I think, at least at a theoretical and conceptual level, that a NT believer&#039;s sanctification and fruit-bearing &lt;em&gt;could potentially exceed&lt;/em&gt; that of the OT believer. 

Your servant, 
Bob Gonzales</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oskar,</p>
<p>It appears to me that you&#8217;re struggling with accepting at a conceptual level the idea that the NT believer is likely to be holier or more sanctified than an OT believer by virtue of the new phase of the Spirit&#8217;s ministry under the New Covenant. I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;re having difficulty seeing this at a corporate level. Certainly, the Age of the Spirit has resulted in a New Covenant Community that produces the kind of fruit that the Old Covenant Community failed to produce. But when we think of the piety of men like Abraham and Moses and David, it&#8217;s difficult for us to conceive of the sanctification of NT believers rising much higher with some exceptions, of course, like, say, Peter, Stephen, and Paul. </p>
<p>On the other hand, if we tie the Spirit&#8217;s sanctifying work to special revelation (John 17:17) and if we grant that under the NT era we have much more special revelation than those under the OT era, then it&#8217;s possible, I think, at least at a theoretical and conceptual level, that a NT believer&#8217;s sanctification and fruit-bearing <em>could potentially exceed</em> that of the OT believer. </p>
<p>Your servant,<br />
Bob Gonzales</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Oskar Arocha</title>
		<link>http://blog.rbseminary.org/2010/02/faq-on-the-holy-spirit/comment-page-1/#comment-6920</link>
		<dc:creator>Oskar Arocha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:52:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.rbseminary.org/?p=1990#comment-6920</guid>
		<description>Thank you John for taking all that time and effort to answer but I need to emphasize that I don&#039;t agree for the following reasons:
1. Lets say for a moment that it is true, that in the NT the Holy Spirit&#039;s fullness is ultimate [more], but how do you prove the relationship with the fruits? I can see a relationship with the gifts (1 Cor 12:4,13), but not with fruits.
2. The only extra power of the Spirit that I see in the NT differentiated from the Spirit&#039;s work in the OT is the one related with the gospel of the kingdom being proclaimed throughout the whole world which you mention as ultimate power #1.
Finally, just because I don&#039;t agree, doesn&#039;t mean that I am right, so please send me your comments. 
Jesus be with you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you John for taking all that time and effort to answer but I need to emphasize that I don&#8217;t agree for the following reasons:<br />
1. Lets say for a moment that it is true, that in the NT the Holy Spirit&#8217;s fullness is ultimate [more], but how do you prove the relationship with the fruits? I can see a relationship with the gifts (1 Cor 12:4,13), but not with fruits.<br />
2. The only extra power of the Spirit that I see in the NT differentiated from the Spirit&#8217;s work in the OT is the one related with the gospel of the kingdom being proclaimed throughout the whole world which you mention as ultimate power #1.<br />
Finally, just because I don&#8217;t agree, doesn&#8217;t mean that I am right, so please send me your comments.<br />
Jesus be with you.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Reuther</title>
		<link>http://blog.rbseminary.org/2010/02/faq-on-the-holy-spirit/comment-page-1/#comment-6832</link>
		<dc:creator>John Reuther</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:53:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.rbseminary.org/?p=1990#comment-6832</guid>
		<description>Hello Oskar - In this second point about ultimate power, I am simply saying that the Spirit of Christ who is in us is the ultimate blessing given to sinners, producing a type and kind of fruit that matches this unique privilege (which the OT believers did not have). In this article I am trying to be careful to assert that believers in the OT - 1.) possessed the Holy Spirit of God, 2.) were indwelt and filled by the Holy Spirit of God, 3.) possessed the righteousness required by God in all ages. 

First of all, Gal. 5 is certainly unique to the NT as far as a description of fruit goes. The OT has references to fruit-bearing, the most notable one is Ps. 1:3 – “yields his fruit in his season, and in whatever he does he prospers.” Another (comforting to many of us!) is Ps. 92:14 “still yields fruit in old age.” The fruit of wisdom is “better than gold” (Pr. 8:19), and “the fruit of the righteous is a tree of life” (Pr. 11:30). Isa. 45:8 is, in my estimation, one of the grandest OT texts concerning the fruit of righteousness – “Drip down, O heavens, from above, And let the clouds pour down righteousness; Let the earth open up and salvation bear fruit, And righteousness spring up with it. I, the Lord, have created it.” Here we find one of those Gospel promise passages which indicates that when the Messiah comes, there will be much fruit (see also Isa. 11:1, 37:31).  

When I use the phrase “ultimate fruit” I am simply referring to the final stage, the fulfillment stage, of the kingdom of God inaugurated by the Lord Jesus and His Spirit on the day of Pentecost. So I do not deny the presence of fruit of righteousness in OT believers, but when compared with the outpouring of power and fruit in this age of the Church, we see a vastly greater power/Power at work, the power of the Spirit. I mentioned the weakness of the Law as expressed in Rom. 8:3. So the period of the Law is contrasted with the age of the Spirit in numerous texts. What does this mean practically? It means that we have greater power: the indwelling Christ and His Spirit. 

In another study I recently completed, I compared the Decalogue, the Beatitudes, and the Fruit of the Spirit as ethical standards of righteousness. Here are a few portions of the section on the fruit:

“The Fruit of the Spirit as given to Paul is the culmination of all that Moses and Jesus previously gave to us in the Ten Commandments and the Beatitudes. Paul’s doctrine of the Spirit is the unfolding of the baptism, filling, and fullness of the Spirit. When he displays the fruit of the Spirit, he is revealing the powerful work of the Spirit in the production of the ultimate blessing of godliness and righteousness. The Decalogue emphasizes obedience to the standard, the Beatitudes emphasize the character and blessedness of the citizens of God’s kingdom, and the fruit of the Spirit emphasizes the perfecting grace of God in our lives and the production of the good fruit of righteousness. That is just how important it is for us to live by the Spirit! We MUST produce fruit, much fruit, good fruit!
The promise of good fruit was highlighted by the Lord Jesus in the upper room when He gave His disciples His fullest explanation of the work of the Holy Spirit in preparation for His official coming at Pentecost. John 15, the very center of that discourse, speaks of abiding in Christ and bearing fruit. “I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing” (John 15:5). “My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples” (John 15:8).”
So using the phrase ultimate power is simply a way of highlighting the fullness which we have in the Spirit (by virtue of the historic revelation of Christ and the pouring out of the Spirit on the day of Pentecost), which OT believers did not have. They bore fruit – yes. It was fruit of righteousness – yes. But it was not fruit from Christ and His Spirit. To have fruit from Him in these last days is (I can’t think of what else to call it but….) ultimate fruit!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Oskar &#8211; In this second point about ultimate power, I am simply saying that the Spirit of Christ who is in us is the ultimate blessing given to sinners, producing a type and kind of fruit that matches this unique privilege (which the OT believers did not have). In this article I am trying to be careful to assert that believers in the OT &#8211; 1.) possessed the Holy Spirit of God, 2.) were indwelt and filled by the Holy Spirit of God, 3.) possessed the righteousness required by God in all ages. </p>
<p>First of all, Gal. 5 is certainly unique to the NT as far as a description of fruit goes. The OT has references to fruit-bearing, the most notable one is Ps. 1:3 – “yields his fruit in his season, and in whatever he does he prospers.” Another (comforting to many of us!) is Ps. 92:14 “still yields fruit in old age.” The fruit of wisdom is “better than gold” (Pr. 8:19), and “the fruit of the righteous is a tree of life” (Pr. 11:30). Isa. 45:8 is, in my estimation, one of the grandest OT texts concerning the fruit of righteousness – “Drip down, O heavens, from above, And let the clouds pour down righteousness; Let the earth open up and salvation bear fruit, And righteousness spring up with it. I, the Lord, have created it.” Here we find one of those Gospel promise passages which indicates that when the Messiah comes, there will be much fruit (see also Isa. 11:1, 37:31).  </p>
<p>When I use the phrase “ultimate fruit” I am simply referring to the final stage, the fulfillment stage, of the kingdom of God inaugurated by the Lord Jesus and His Spirit on the day of Pentecost. So I do not deny the presence of fruit of righteousness in OT believers, but when compared with the outpouring of power and fruit in this age of the Church, we see a vastly greater power/Power at work, the power of the Spirit. I mentioned the weakness of the Law as expressed in Rom. 8:3. So the period of the Law is contrasted with the age of the Spirit in numerous texts. What does this mean practically? It means that we have greater power: the indwelling Christ and His Spirit. </p>
<p>In another study I recently completed, I compared the Decalogue, the Beatitudes, and the Fruit of the Spirit as ethical standards of righteousness. Here are a few portions of the section on the fruit:</p>
<p>“The Fruit of the Spirit as given to Paul is the culmination of all that Moses and Jesus previously gave to us in the Ten Commandments and the Beatitudes. Paul’s doctrine of the Spirit is the unfolding of the baptism, filling, and fullness of the Spirit. When he displays the fruit of the Spirit, he is revealing the powerful work of the Spirit in the production of the ultimate blessing of godliness and righteousness. The Decalogue emphasizes obedience to the standard, the Beatitudes emphasize the character and blessedness of the citizens of God’s kingdom, and the fruit of the Spirit emphasizes the perfecting grace of God in our lives and the production of the good fruit of righteousness. That is just how important it is for us to live by the Spirit! We MUST produce fruit, much fruit, good fruit!<br />
The promise of good fruit was highlighted by the Lord Jesus in the upper room when He gave His disciples His fullest explanation of the work of the Holy Spirit in preparation for His official coming at Pentecost. John 15, the very center of that discourse, speaks of abiding in Christ and bearing fruit. “I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing” (John 15:5). “My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples” (John 15:8).”<br />
So using the phrase ultimate power is simply a way of highlighting the fullness which we have in the Spirit (by virtue of the historic revelation of Christ and the pouring out of the Spirit on the day of Pentecost), which OT believers did not have. They bore fruit – yes. It was fruit of righteousness – yes. But it was not fruit from Christ and His Spirit. To have fruit from Him in these last days is (I can’t think of what else to call it but….) ultimate fruit!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Oskar Arocha</title>
		<link>http://blog.rbseminary.org/2010/02/faq-on-the-holy-spirit/comment-page-1/#comment-6828</link>
		<dc:creator>Oskar Arocha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 20:35:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.rbseminary.org/?p=1990#comment-6828</guid>
		<description>It seems from your post that OT believers did not have the power of the spirit in the production of the fruit of rightuosness specified in Gal 5, is that right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems from your post that OT believers did not have the power of the spirit in the production of the fruit of rightuosness specified in Gal 5, is that right?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Oskar Arocha</title>
		<link>http://blog.rbseminary.org/2010/02/faq-on-the-holy-spirit/comment-page-1/#comment-6826</link>
		<dc:creator>Oskar Arocha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:42:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.rbseminary.org/?p=1990#comment-6826</guid>
		<description>Jesus be with you!
I agree totally with Ultimate Power #1 but not with #2, and I might add that the NT believer has more written revelation for the Spirit to work powerfully with. But, could you give biblical support for Ultimate Power #2.
Thanx,
OA</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jesus be with you!<br />
I agree totally with Ultimate Power #1 but not with #2, and I might add that the NT believer has more written revelation for the Spirit to work powerfully with. But, could you give biblical support for Ultimate Power #2.<br />
Thanx,<br />
OA</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Stan Reeves</title>
		<link>http://blog.rbseminary.org/2010/02/faq-on-the-holy-spirit/comment-page-1/#comment-6820</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan Reeves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:13:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.rbseminary.org/?p=1990#comment-6820</guid>
		<description>This was very helpful!  Thanks for your labors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was very helpful!  Thanks for your labors.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
